So What Do You Need A Girl For, Anyway?

[NYC XYZ]

I had a nice date last night. We went to the art museum (this being
NYC, you know which one I mean) and then to a diner (ugh, diners -- but
it was her suggestion, right, and she's the girl). Very nice night,
interesting conversation, I think she likes me, the way things worked
out my subway was right there waiting for me and I jumped right in
(since she didn't want me to walk her home so we were to part right
there) and then she sort of calls after me, "I'd call but I have no way
of reaching you" since I don't have a telephone (I don't need it) and I
tell her I'll call her instead.

So it was all very nice and tidy and this girl is pretty and shapely,
even if rather too old for me (only two years my junior). And I'm
wondering, well, what do you really need a girl for, anyway?

I mean, if you're not emotionally needy and can live very happily by
yourself -- like me -- well, what's the "incentive" for dating? The
more I date the more I find that I really don't like most girls, anyway
-- at least not American girls, who think they know it all because of
feminist bullshit but I find that they know less than their college
degrees would suggest (I've met psychology grads who've barely heard of
Freud, or sociology grads who barely know of Webber, or philosophy
double-majors who don't seem to like Socratic discourse -- and of
course the 9/11-and-Iraq-are-related PoliSci girls). I mean, I
honestly find more meaningful company here on usenet (hehe -- but then
again, maybe sexy girls are necessarily stupid? I guess you've got to
be stupid, no matter how high your GPA, in order to show off your body
like a porn star and still insist on a guy respecting your
"intelligence").

So anyway, I'm just wondering if there are any of you out there who
honestly prefer the single life, and only use women for sex. I think I
might start doing this. 'Cause I honestly can't figure out what I need
a woman for anymore besides that. Everything they say is so
predictable anyway, the only reason I'm dating is 'cause I'm horny.
But there's such a thing involving respect and sex and intimacy and
love and all that, and you know, it's weird having to play games (come
on, you almost can't be honest: I once pissed off a girl by joking that
she should get beaten up by cops after she told me she liked being
choked during sex).

Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y'all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

[%]

Post by NYC XYZ
I had a nice date last night. We went to the art museum (this being
NYC, you know which one I mean) and then to a diner (ugh, diners -- but
it was her suggestion, right, and she's the girl). Very nice night,
interesting conversation, I think she likes me, the way things worked
out my subway was right there waiting for me and I jumped right in
(since she didn't want me to walk her home so we were to part right
there) and then she sort of calls after me, "I'd call but I have no way
of reaching you" since I don't have a telephone (I don't need it) and I
tell her I'll call her instead.
So it was all very nice and tidy and this girl is pretty and shapely,
even if rather too old for me (only two years my junior). And I'm
wondering, well, what do you really need a girl for, anyway?
I mean, if you're not emotionally needy and can live very happily by
yourself -- like me -- well, what's the "incentive" for dating? The
more I date the more I find that I really don't like most girls, anyway
-- at least not American girls, who think they know it all because of
feminist bullshit but I find that they know less than their college
degrees would suggest (I've met psychology grads who've barely heard of
Freud, or sociology grads who barely know of Webber, or philosophy
double-majors who don't seem to like Socratic discourse -- and of
course the 9/11-and-Iraq-are-related PoliSci girls). I mean, I
honestly find more meaningful company here on usenet (hehe -- but then
again, maybe sexy girls are necessarily stupid? I guess you've got to
be stupid, no matter how high your GPA, in order to show off your body
like a porn star and still insist on a guy respecting your
"intelligence").
So anyway, I'm just wondering if there are any of you out there who
honestly prefer the single life, and only use women for sex. I think I
might start doing this. 'Cause I honestly can't figure out what I need
a woman for anymore besides that. Everything they say is so
predictable anyway, the only reason I'm dating is 'cause I'm horny.
But there's such a thing involving respect and sex and intimacy and
love and all that, and you know, it's weird having to play games (come
on, you almost can't be honest: I once pissed off a girl by joking that
she should get beaten up by cops after she told me she liked being
choked during sex).
Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y'all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

i'm content either way ,
i've lived with them and without them ,
both ways have their ups and downs

[NYC XYZ]

Post by %
i'm content either way ,
i've lived with them and without them ,
both ways have their ups and downs

Yeah, so it seems like it's only worth it if you want kids out of the
deal, right?

Even then, there's always adoption, etc., if kids are so important.

My father keeps bugging me to get married already. He's even tried
setting me up with girls from the Old Country. Thing is, even if he
finds me the most attractive girl I can imagine, I'm not sure the
concommittant changes would be worthwhile. I think I'm just too used
to my independence now, and having things around here my way, just how
I like it.

This is becoming an issue since, at 34, these are my last years at a
shot at the under-20 crowd of girls. Pretty soon I'll have to consider
coeds as the youngest I can do! But maybe by then I won't care so
much. Right now, though, I feel like an older woman simply doesn't
*deserve* me -- I'm just too good for a woman-on-a-mission with a
biological clock ticking away like a suicide bomb! I feel like my
youthful looks would be wasted on a woman my age, not to mention my
disdain at having to settle for a used woman.

[%]

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by %
i'm content either way ,
i've lived with them and without them ,
both ways have their ups and downs

Yeah, so it seems like it's only worth it if you want kids out of the
deal, right?
Even then, there's always adoption, etc., if kids are so important.
My father keeps bugging me to get married already. He's even tried
setting me up with girls from the Old Country. Thing is, even if he
finds me the most attractive girl I can imagine, I'm not sure the
concommittant changes would be worthwhile. I think I'm just too used
to my independence now, and having things around here my way, just how
I like it.
This is becoming an issue since, at 34, these are my last years at a
shot at the under-20 crowd of girls. Pretty soon I'll have to consider
coeds as the youngest I can do! But maybe by then I won't care so
much. Right now, though, I feel like an older woman simply doesn't
*deserve* me -- I'm just too good for a woman-on-a-mission with a
biological clock ticking away like a suicide bomb! I feel like my
youthful looks would be wasted on a woman my age, not to mention my
disdain at having to settle for a used woman.

again for me its either or ,
if they're there ,
then i have less around the house to do ,
if they aren't , i don't mind doing it for myself
older , younger , i limit myself ,
to about 5 years either side of my age , depening

[NYC XYZ]

Post by %
again for me its either or ,
if they're there ,
then i have less around the house to do ,
if they aren't , i don't mind doing it for myself
older , younger , i limit myself ,
to about 5 years either side of my age , depening

Very sensible, of course.

[dizzy]

Post by NYC XYZ
This is becoming an issue since, at 34, these are my last years at a
shot at the under-20 crowd of girls.

Sheesh, and you wonder why the girls you date aren't compatible,
mentally?

You are a moron!

[NYC XYZ]

Um, no, Dizzy, not all young girls are stupid like you once were.

Post by dizzy
Sheesh, and you wonder why the girls you date aren't compatible,
mentally?
You are a moron!

[dizzy]

NYC XYZ top posted:

(top posting corrected)

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by dizzy
Sheesh, and you wonder why the girls you date aren't compatible,
mentally?
You are a moron!

Um, no, Dizzy, not all young girls are stupid like you once were.

Idiot.

[Visi Caulk Mah Pnats]

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by %
i'm content either way ,
i've lived with them and without them ,
both ways have their ups and downs

Yeah, so it seems like it's only worth it if you want kids out of the
deal, right?
Even then, there's always adoption, etc., if kids are so important.
My father keeps bugging me to get married already. He's even tried
setting me up with girls from the Old Country. Thing is, even if he
finds me the most attractive girl I can imagine, I'm not sure the
concommittant changes would be worthwhile. I think I'm just too used
to my independence now, and having things around here my way, just how
I like it.
This is becoming an issue since, at 34, these are my last years at a
shot at the under-20 crowd of girls. Pretty soon I'll have to
consider coeds as the youngest I can do! But maybe by then I won't
care so much. Right now, though, I feel like an older woman simply
doesn't *deserve* me -- I'm just too good for a woman-on-a-mission
with a biological clock ticking away like a suicide bomb! I feel
like my youthful looks would be wasted on a woman my age, not to
mention my disdain at having to settle for a used woman.

lol but aren't you a used up man?

[dizzy]

Post by %
i'm content either way ,
i've lived with them and without them ,
both ways have their ups and downs

That's for sure. Although we are all driven to "want" one, I'm not
sure it's really better to have one. Of course there's some lucky
folks that are in a win-situation, for most couples there's plenty of
cons to go with the pros.

[Doug]

Post by NYC XYZ
Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y'all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

There is no such thing as a "soul mate". The sooner you quit looking for
a meaningful relationship the sooner you can start enjoying random sex
on a frequent basis.

[yup..it's me...]

Post by Doug
There is no such thing as a "soul mate".

I hate that term, but there is a BOND when it click's.

I think it's something you CANNOT search for. Has 2 happen.


JJTj

[NYC XYZ]

Post by yup..it's me...
I hate that term, but there is a BOND when it click's.
I think it's something you CANNOT search for. Has 2 happen.
JJTj

Hey, I agree. I found that bond once, too. And yes, it was totally
unlooked for. However, that bond also broke -- the bond wasn't as
important to her as it was to me, in time, considering the more
"material" and "external" factors of a relationship.

So...no such thing as a "soulmate," insofar as the term "soul" connotes
something eternal -- bonds form, and that which forms can also break.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by NYC XYZ
So...no such thing as a "soulmate," insofar as the term "soul" connotes
something eternal -- bonds form, and that which forms can also break.

There are souls who arrange to meet each other again and again, but
that doesn't necessarily mean that they will immediately form
life-long relationships each time they meet.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Mxsmanic
There are souls who arrange to meet each other again and again, but
that doesn't necessarily mean that they will immediately form
life-long relationships each time they meet.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Indeed, a happy occasion. Sounds like usenet, only with sex! Can't
wait for the technology..."please find attached 'tits_and_ass.exe'"....

[Mxsmanic]

Post by NYC XYZ
Indeed, a happy occasion. Sounds like usenet, only with sex! Can't
wait for the technology..."please find attached 'tits_and_ass.exe'"....

The relationships are not necessarily sexual. For example, two souls
may meet as man and woman in one incarnation, but they may be brother
and sister in another, or even sister and sister, and so on. The
important and durable part is the relationship; the sex doesn't
matter.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Doug
There is no such thing as a "soul mate". The sooner you quit looking for
a meaningful relationship the sooner you can start enjoying random sex
on a frequent basis.

I think you are right. Problem is, most women don't believe this. So
I have to hide my true feelings, and that's psychologically
uncomfortable to me, to be naked physically but covered up emotionally.

[Anon]

Post by NYC XYZ
I think you are right. Problem is, most women don't believe this. So
I have to hide my true feelings, and that's psychologically
uncomfortable to me, to be naked physically but covered up emotionally.

But that's just going from one extreme to the next. Sure there's no such
thing as soul mate but the opposite is random sex. Surely there's a happy
medium where you're in medium term relationships (whatever time that is) and
you have some great sex and more stuff.

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by Doug
There is no such thing as a "soul mate". The sooner you quit looking for
a meaningful relationship the sooner you can start enjoying random sex
on a frequent basis.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Anon
But that's just going from one extreme to the next. Sure there's no such
thing as soul mate but the opposite is random sex. Surely there's a happy
medium where you're in medium term relationships (whatever time that is) and
you have some great sex and more stuff.

I can see that "medium-term relationship with great sex and more" you
speak of happening in a college in a place like New York City. These
three girls in class were giving me the look yesterday. One actually
came on to me. Though I think they just want help with their homework!

[speeding]

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by Anon
But that's just going from one extreme to the next. Sure there's no
such thing as soul mate but the opposite is random sex. Surely
there's a happy medium where you're in medium term relationships
(whatever time that is) and you have some great sex and more stuff.

I can see that "medium-term relationship with great sex and more" you
speak of happening in a college in a place like New York City. These
three girls in class were giving me the look yesterday. One actually
came on to me. Though I think they just want help with their
homework!

Well... depends on the subject... Give them plenty of help in or on
anatomy. Sex ed. etc... ;)

[Steve Pope]

Post by Doug

Post by NYC XYZ
Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y'all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

There is no such thing as a "soul mate".

Surely that is just your personal opinion and not a global truth.

Post by Doug
The sooner you quit looking for
a meaningful relationship the sooner you can start enjoying random sex
on a frequent basis.

Possibly true for some people in some situations, and again
not a global truth.

Cheers

Steve

[Mxsmanic]

Post by NYC XYZ
So anyway, I'm just wondering if there are any of you out there who
honestly prefer the single life, and only use women for sex.

I prefer being single, but I like to have women as friends. I don't
engage in sex, but women are pretty to look at, and they are easier to
get along with than most men (for me).

Post by NYC XYZ
Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y'all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

I don't try to predict or analyze the future. What will be, will be.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Mxsmanic
I prefer being single, but I like to have women as friends. I don't
engage in sex, but women are pretty to look at, and they are easier to
get along with than most men (for me).

That's so interesting you say that. I feel the same way, generally --
as *friends* I prefer women over men (though I can count on guys to
show up for stuff like 100-mile bike rides, unlike with the ladies).
But I guess dating is something else. I find that I can't be in a
friendly state of mind with girls -- and even women, oddly enough --
when I'm dating them. You see, I like to think of a date as just
hanging out and having fun, which may include sex since we're
heterosexuals. I don't seem to be meetin females who feel quite that
same way. Sex is just so much more for them.

Post by Mxsmanic
I don't try to predict or analyze the future. What will be, will be.

I'm rather like that, too, now. This fast seduction stuff is good to
know, but the first thing I know is that females are beyond tactics and
strategems! Basically, I try to apply FS on those who are open to it,
as opposed to using FS to "convert" anyone...so I can relate to the
"que sera, sera" (what will be, will be) ethos.

Post by Mxsmanic
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by NYC XYZ
That's so interesting you say that. I feel the same way, generally --
as *friends* I prefer women over men (though I can count on guys to
show up for stuff like 100-mile bike rides, unlike with the ladies).
But I guess dating is something else. I find that I can't be in a
friendly state of mind with girls -- and even women, oddly enough --
when I'm dating them. You see, I like to think of a date as just
hanging out and having fun, which may include sex since we're
heterosexuals.

That's why I don't date.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Mxsmanic
That's why I don't date.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Cool, more power to ya. I haven't been able to just have sex without
first dating the girl. I know, RTFM -- but I do enjoy dating, too. I
guess I just keep falling into the typical "female frame" of being
monogamous. I'm not sure why. It does sound romantic and nice, I must
admit. I guess I just haven't met a girl who "makes" me want to do
that yet.

[Alex]

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by Mxsmanic
That's why I don't date.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Cool, more power to ya. I haven't been able to just have sex without
first dating the girl. I know, RTFM -- but I do enjoy dating, too. I
guess I just keep falling into the typical "female frame" of being
monogamous. I'm not sure why. It does sound romantic and nice, I must
admit. I guess I just haven't met a girl who "makes" me want to do
that yet.

You are who you are and you want what you want.

You certainly won't be happy trying to live up to what you think others
think you should want.

If what you want is an LTR, then that's what you want.

Learning about seduction techniques is about having choices.

Not about which choices you "should" make.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Alex
You are who you are and you want what you want.
You certainly won't be happy trying to live up to what you think others
think you should want.
If what you want is an LTR, then that's what you want.
Learning about seduction techniques is about having choices.
Not about which choices you "should" make.

Indeed.

It's just that now, after being competent in them (I feel like a PUA,
though I may well be a lucky RAFC), I find that I don't care about the
girls who are persuaded through such means. This is the source of my
misogyny, like the contempt you feel for the Wizard of Oz after peeking
behind the curtain, if you know what I mean.

So I guess that's the genesis of my question -- just what do I want
them for?

On the other hand, I do feel bad just using a girl for her body, even
if she's used to it. I shouldn't, of course -- especially since I'm
constantly amazed how easily they shrug it off! LOL...well, there are
some girls this semester who seem to think I'd be great to have around
for the exams...this will be another interesting four months!

[Anon]

Post by NYC XYZ
I've met psychology grads who've barely heard of
Freud, or sociology grads who barely know of Webber, or philosophy
double-majors who don't seem to like Socratic discourse -- and of
course the 9/11-and-Iraq-are-related PoliSci girls).

Weber :-p (I think)

But I agree with this. It was amazing how many people in my law school just
had no idea about law or even took an interest. They knew what they needed
to know to pass an exam. They never took an interest. I was one of the few
who did, so was renound for it. It was crazy, I'd talk to them about
something really relevant and they'd have no clue or (pretend) it was way
over their heads. It was like people at school, where no one wanted to stand
out and be the 'geek'.

Post by NYC XYZ
Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y'all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

If things stay this way for the rest of my life it'd end early. I'm not
looking for a soul mate, just a date and to hang out. But I guess i'm not
looking for the soul mate thing cause I like my hobbies and my company. I
dont need that wonderous love, I just need a bit of company.

Post by NYC XYZ
I had a nice date last night. We went to the art museum (this being
NYC, you know which one I mean) and then to a diner (ugh, diners -- but
it was her suggestion, right, and she's the girl). Very nice night,
interesting conversation, I think she likes me, the way things worked
out my subway was right there waiting for me and I jumped right in
(since she didn't want me to walk her home so we were to part right
there) and then she sort of calls after me, "I'd call but I have no way
of reaching you" since I don't have a telephone (I don't need it) and I
tell her I'll call her instead.
So it was all very nice and tidy and this girl is pretty and shapely,
even if rather too old for me (only two years my junior). And I'm
wondering, well, what do you really need a girl for, anyway?
I mean, if you're not emotionally needy and can live very happily by
yourself -- like me -- well, what's the "incentive" for dating? The
more I date the more I find that I really don't like most girls, anyway
-- at least not American girls, who think they know it all because of
feminist bullshit but I find that they know less than their college
degrees would suggest (I've met psychology grads who've barely heard of
Freud, or sociology grads who barely know of Webber, or philosophy
double-majors who don't seem to like Socratic discourse -- and of
course the 9/11-and-Iraq-are-related PoliSci girls). I mean, I
honestly find more meaningful company here on usenet (hehe -- but then
again, maybe sexy girls are necessarily stupid? I guess you've got to
be stupid, no matter how high your GPA, in order to show off your body
like a porn star and still insist on a guy respecting your
"intelligence").
So anyway, I'm just wondering if there are any of you out there who
honestly prefer the single life, and only use women for sex. I think I
might start doing this. 'Cause I honestly can't figure out what I need
a woman for anymore besides that. Everything they say is so
predictable anyway, the only reason I'm dating is 'cause I'm horny.
But there's such a thing involving respect and sex and intimacy and
love and all that, and you know, it's weird having to play games (come
on, you almost can't be honest: I once pissed off a girl by joking that
she should get beaten up by cops after she told me she liked being
choked during sex).

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Anon
Weber :-p (I think)

LOL!

Post by Anon
But I agree with this. It was amazing how many people in my law school just
had no idea about law or even took an interest. They knew what they needed
to know to pass an exam. They never took an interest. I was one of the few
who did, so was renound for it. It was crazy, I'd talk to them about
something really relevant and they'd have no clue or (pretend) it was way
over their heads. It was like people at school, where no one wanted to stand
out and be the 'geek'.

It's very sad that there are such games -- to be the best but pretend
not to care about being the best (because it makes others insecure or
jealous). That's *precisely* how it is with most girls, games: there
is mutual attraction, but the girl likes to act nonchalant, etc.

Post by Anon
If things stay this way for the rest of my life it'd end early. I'm not
looking for a soul mate, just a date and to hang out. But I guess i'm not
looking for the soul mate thing cause I like my hobbies and my company. I
dont need that wonderous love, I just need a bit of company.

Hmm, a bit of company is not hard to come by, generally speaking. What
do you mean by implying that you can't even find someone to date and
hang out with? Are you especially picky, or do you pick your nose
mid-conversation? Seriously, what gives, man -- maybe you're in a
small town or something? I'm not understanding what your situation is
such that you seem involuntarily lonely.

[Anon]

Post by NYC XYZ
It's very sad that there are such games -- to be the best but pretend
not to care about being the best (because it makes others insecure or
jealous). That's *precisely* how it is with most girls, games: there
is mutual attraction, but the girl likes to act nonchalant, etc.

From my experience this is 100% true and if you dont pick up on those games
it's hopeless.

Post by NYC XYZ
Hmm, a bit of company is not hard to come by, generally speaking. What
do you mean by implying that you can't even find someone to date and
hang out with? Are you especially picky, or do you pick your nose
mid-conversation? Seriously, what gives, man -- maybe you're in a
small town or something? I'm not understanding what your situation is
such that you seem involuntarily lonely.

I never used to be this bad just two months ago because I was still in my
university town. So I had lots of acquaintances and one true friend and
about 3 good friends. But I was still lonely here cause of the girl thing.
It's gotten worse since I came home because I dont know anyone at home. I
literally know maybe two people and I haven't talked to them in years. It
takes a lot of 'forced time' with me to become friends - mostly at work. If
people are forced to spend hours with me for months on end eventually I have
a group of friends. I guess I dont have an attractive personality so without
that it's hopeless. Social phobic I guess, well lack of social skills
anyway.

And yeah I'm picky in that I dont date women I find unattractive. But as one
of my good friends says 'I have no standards'. On the street I'd find about
80% of women attractive so it's not like I'm really picky just I dont wanna
go out with women I find unattractive. A super-hot friend of mine, used to
constantly say 'show some confidence you'd have anyone'. But it's almost
impossible to show confidence when no one has ever given you a reason to be
confident. Women get complements every single day. I might get 'hair looks
nice'. And besides, I think they confuse confidence with 'outgoing
personality'. I have plenty of confidence especially when I used to be in
shape it' sjust I'm not outgoing and never will be.

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by Anon
Weber :-p (I think)

LOL!

Post by Anon
But I agree with this. It was amazing how many people in my law school just
had no idea about law or even took an interest. They knew what they needed
to know to pass an exam. They never took an interest. I was one of the few
who did, so was renound for it. It was crazy, I'd talk to them about
something really relevant and they'd have no clue or (pretend) it was way
over their heads. It was like people at school, where no one wanted to stand
out and be the 'geek'.
If things stay this way for the rest of my life it'd end early. I'm not
looking for a soul mate, just a date and to hang out. But I guess i'm not
looking for the soul mate thing cause I like my hobbies and my company. I
dont need that wonderous love, I just need a bit of company.

[Alex]

Post by Anon
Social phobic I guess, well lack of social skills
anyway.

You should probably do whatever you can to figure out which.

Social skills can be learned.

Social phobia requires treatment from a psychiatrist.

[Anon]

Post by Alex
Social skills can be learned.
Social phobia requires treatment from a psychiatrist.

But it's a combination of both. I'm comfortable around people I know but
around people I dont it's pretty bad. I'm pretty sure I'm not phobic anymore
and no drugs will help me with the meeting new people.

And skills can be learned but it depends if you're a natural. A budding
mathmatician who was not exposed to mathematics when he was a child will
pick up maths later on in his life very quickly but never as quickly as he
did when he was a kid. I've tried learning them, I've put myself in
positions that I've never been in and tried new things. I'm attending the
school, going to lectures, tutorials and doing extra reading but I'm simply
/not/ getting it. It's like me doing a physics degree, there's no way I'll
get it even if I try my hardest.

Post by Alex

Post by Anon
Social phobic I guess, well lack of social skills
anyway.

You should probably do whatever you can to figure out which.

[Alex]

Post by Anon

Post by Alex
Social skills can be learned.
Social phobia requires treatment from a psychiatrist.

But it's a combination of both. I'm comfortable around people I know but
around people I dont it's pretty bad. I'm pretty sure I'm not phobic anymore
and no drugs will help me with the meeting new people.

If your not phobic, then the skills you need can be learned.

Post by Anon
And skills can be learned but it depends if you're a natural. A budding
mathmatician who was not exposed to mathematics when he was a child will
pick up maths later on in his life very quickly but never as quickly as he
did when he was a kid. I've tried learning them, I've put myself in
positions that I've never been in and tried new things. I'm attending the
school, going to lectures, tutorials and doing extra reading but I'm simply
/not/ getting it. It's like me doing a physics degree, there's no way I'll
get it even if I try my hardest.

Fortunately, social skills are not math or physics.

Either do what you need to do to learn them or stop whining.

No one's interested in your rationalizations for failure.

[Anon]

Post by Alex
Fortunately, social skills are not math or physics.

The analogy flew over your head.

Post by Alex
Either do what you need to do to learn them or stop whining.

Whining over usenet is very easy, no one knows me here, it stops me whining
in real life and lets me anaylse things better. I'm not gonna stop whining

Post by Alex

Post by Alex
Social skills can be learned.

[Alex]

Post by Anon

Post by Alex
Fortunately, social skills are not math or physics.

The analogy flew over your head.

No, it didn't.

The analogy fails.

Learning the difference might improve your thinking skills.

Post by Anon

Post by Alex
Either do what you need to do to learn them or stop whining.

Whining over usenet is very easy, no one knows me here, it stops me whining
in real life and lets me anaylse things better. I'm not gonna stop whining

Good luck with that then.

[Krus T. Olfard]

Post by Anon

Post by Alex
Fortunately, social skills are not math or physics.

The analogy flew over your head.

Post by Alex
Either do what you need to do to learn them or stop whining.

Whining over usenet is very easy, no one knows me here, it stops me
whining in real life and lets me anaylse things better. I'm not gonna
stop whining

And right there you preclude anyone else from giving you good advice.
Too bad but from your comment you don't care.

Plonk.

[Dancer]

Post by Krus T. Olfard

Post by Alex
Either do what you need to do to learn them or stop whining.

And right there you preclude anyone else from giving you good advice.
Too bad but from your comment you don't care.

Man, you guys are kind of harsh.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Anon
From my experience this is 100% true and if you dont pick up on those games
it's hopeless.

Especially the fine line between agreeing with her and yet challenging
her intellectually as well. Oh God, what a con job that is! And they
love it, they absolutely love it. You respect her mind by agreeing
with her bedrock core convictions (music, love, Santa Claus) while
debating her about fluff like what to wear so as to "challenge" her.
They love to think that you're helping them learn and grow as a person
while reaffirming their basic level of intelligence (which, naturally,
is "unique" to *them*). It's like running for President by making nice
with corporate interests while wooing the electorate into thinking it's
their votes that matter. In the end, all countries go to war,
regardless of what its people think they want -- ha! And all pussies
get fucked; the really hot ones might be kept around for second and
third helpings.

Post by Anon
I never used to be this bad just two months ago because I was still in my
university town. So I had lots of acquaintances and one true friend and
about 3 good friends. But I was still lonely here cause of the girl thing.
It's gotten worse since I came home because I dont know anyone at home. I
literally know maybe two people and I haven't talked to them in years. It
takes a lot of 'forced time' with me to become friends - mostly at work. If
people are forced to spend hours with me for months on end eventually I have
a group of friends. I guess I dont have an attractive personality so without
that it's hopeless. Social phobic I guess, well lack of social skills
anyway.

Sounds like you just need practice, is all. But if you're not
interested, you're not interested.

Post by Anon
And yeah I'm picky in that I dont date women I find unattractive. But as one
of my good friends says 'I have no standards'. On the street I'd find about
80% of women attractive so it's not like I'm really picky just I dont wanna
go out with women I find unattractive.

No one goes out with women they find unattractive -- well, no one
except me, that is. And that's why I've learned that you might as well
go for the attractive ones, 'cause the unattractive ones are no better
inside and will still be full of shit and have their monthly mood
swings, etc.

Anyway, the point is, if you're not especially picky, then I don't see
what your problem is, unless, like me, you despise the game to begin
with (those I'm also rather picky, too, in the sense that I'll fuck
almost any female but in terms of having to devote time, money, etc., I
am altogether different).

Post by Anon
A super-hot friend of mine, used to
constantly say 'show some confidence you'd have anyone'. But it's almost
impossible to show confidence when no one has ever given you a reason to be
confident. Women get complements every single day. I might get 'hair looks
nice'.

Those compliments don't mean anything. It's just worm and grub on the
end of the fish-hook. I always laugh at how many fat girls, or ugly
girls with big noses, etc., think they're hot because all the guys
compliment them. But, as you know, that's the game. Don't be sore
that women and children get candy that's bad for their teeth if they
have too much of it.

Post by Anon
And besides, I think they confuse confidence with 'outgoing
personality'.

That's a very good point.

Post by Anon
I have plenty of confidence especially when I used to be in
shape

This kind of existential confidence isn't attached to external factors.
The women who got fucked by Woody Allen all remarked that the one
attractive thing about him is his "confidence."

Post by Anon
it' sjust I'm not outgoing and never will be.

If you can predict the future like that, then you should be trading
commodities in the futures market.

[Anon]

Post by NYC XYZ
Those compliments don't mean anything. It's just worm and grub on the
end of the fish-hook. I always laugh at how many fat girls, or ugly
girls with big noses, etc., think they're hot because all the guys
compliment them. But, as you know, that's the game. Don't be sore
that women and children get candy that's bad for their teeth if they
have too much of it.

Yup, I know they dont mean anything really. Guys hand 'em out like they're
worth nothing. But still, it has to feel good to hear it. Even when I hear
the aforementioned 'hair looks nice' it makes me feel a little better, even
though I know it's just mere pleasantry. I lived with 3 chicks last year and
used to get small things like that alot, it really did mean something.

Post by NYC XYZ
This kind of existential confidence isn't attached to external factors.
The women who got fucked by Woody Allen all remarked that the one
attractive thing about him is his "confidence."

Very true, but I still think it has to be rooted with something.

Post by NYC XYZ
If you can predict the future like that, then you should be trading
commodities in the futures market.

Maybe I should start applying for grad schemes in this area of finance then
:-p

On the topics of women and the date game. I started a new job this week. One
of the guys who started with me is a 19 year old ex con. He's only a
fraudster and dodgy as hell. But he has like 4 women on the go at the same
time. The guy is ugly, his buck yellow teeth, isn't particularly confident
or charming. I really *don't* get it.at all. When you're walking down the
street with him he'll shout out "easy darling" or "hey beautiful" and be
incredibly demeaning towards women. Says he'll fuck anything, everytime a
girl comes into the room he'll rate her or make a comment. But this guy has
5 girls. Seriously wtf.

Post by NYC XYZ

Post by Anon
From my experience this is 100% true and if you dont pick up on those games
it's hopeless.

Especially the fine line between agreeing with her and yet challenging
her intellectually as well. Oh God, what a con job that is! And they
love it, they absolutely love it. You respect her mind by agreeing
with her bedrock core convictions (music, love, Santa Claus) while
debating her about fluff like what to wear so as to "challenge" her.
They love to think that you're helping them learn and grow as a person
while reaffirming their basic level of intelligence (which, naturally,
is "unique" to *them*). It's like running for President by making nice
with corporate interests while wooing the electorate into thinking it's
their votes that matter. In the end, all countries go to war,
regardless of what its people think they want -- ha! And all pussies
get fucked; the really hot ones might be kept around for second and
third helpings.

Post by Anon
I never used to be this bad just two months ago because I was still in my
university town. So I had lots of acquaintances and one true friend and
about 3 good friends. But I was still lonely here cause of the girl thing.
It's gotten worse since I came home because I dont know anyone at home. I
literally know maybe two people and I haven't talked to them in years. It
takes a lot of 'forced time' with me to become friends - mostly at work. If
people are forced to spend hours with me for months on end eventually I have
a group of friends. I guess I dont have an attractive personality so without
that it's hopeless. Social phobic I guess, well lack of social skills
anyway.

Sounds like you just need practice, is all. But if you're not
interested, you're not interested.

Post by Anon
And yeah I'm picky in that I dont date women I find unattractive. But as one
of my good friends says 'I have no standards'. On the street I'd find about
80% of women attractive so it's not like I'm really picky just I dont wanna
go out with women I find unattractive.

No one goes out with women they find unattractive -- well, no one
except me, that is. And that's why I've learned that you might as well
go for the attractive ones, 'cause the unattractive ones are no better
inside and will still be full of shit and have their monthly mood
swings, etc.
Anyway, the point is, if you're not especially picky, then I don't see
what your problem is, unless, like me, you despise the game to begin
with (those I'm also rather picky, too, in the sense that I'll fuck
almost any female but in terms of having to devote time, money, etc., I
am altogether different).

Post by Anon
A super-hot friend of mine, used to
constantly say 'show some confidence you'd have anyone'. But it's almost
impossible to show confidence when no one has ever given you a reason to be
confident. Women get complements every single day. I might get 'hair looks
nice'.
And besides, I think they confuse confidence with 'outgoing
personality'.

That's a very good point.

Post by Anon
I have plenty of confidence especially when I used to be in
shape
it' sjust I'm not outgoing and never will be.

[NYC XYZ]

Post by Anon
Yup, I know they dont mean anything really. Guys hand 'em out like they're
worth nothing. But still, it has to feel good to hear it. Even when I hear
the aforementioned 'hair looks nice' it makes me feel a little better, even
though I know it's just mere pleasantry. I lived with 3 chicks last year and
used to get small things like that alot, it really did mean something.

Ah, well, this is Communications 101, then -- or Salesmanship 101, or
Psychology 101...it means "nothing" to them, or as much as "nice blue
sky today," whereas to you, it means "something," a whole lot more than
"nice blue sky today."

Sure it feels good, for all of a few seconds. Why not just give
yourself a pat on the back, then. Same difference. Actually, probably
means more if you were to do it: nothing like healthy self-esteem!

Post by Anon
Very true, but I still think it has to be rooted with something.

It's not rooted in anything. Or, rather, it's rooted in one's own
being, in the very fact of one's existence. Basically, at some point,
you *affirm* yourself. You learn that you really do exist. I don't
mean the physical you -- and I don't mean simply some spiritual you,
either -- I mean you, just you. It's kind of like when you first learn
to drive a car, and you're afraid of crashing, but after some time, you
know you won't crash. Something like that. It's not just accepting
yourself or living with yourself or getting over yourself so much as
"affirming" yourself, as I say. A lot of our anxiety comes from this
weird sense that we not sure if we really exist, so to speak.

Post by Anon
Maybe I should start applying for grad schemes in this area of finance then
:-p

Part of affirming yourself is being humble with regards to the future.
You simply cannot make pronouncements like "I'll never be
such-and-such." There's no way you can know something like that. Just
look at yourself five years ago. Maybe even two years ago. If you
look close enough, you'll notice enormous changes.

Post by Anon
On the topics of women and the date game. I started a new job this week. One
of the guys who started with me is a 19 year old ex con. He's only a
fraudster and dodgy as hell. But he has like 4 women on the go at the same
time. The guy is ugly, his buck yellow teeth, isn't particularly confident
or charming. I really *don't* get it.at all. When you're walking down the
street with him he'll shout out "easy darling" or "hey beautiful" and be
incredibly demeaning towards women. Says he'll fuck anything, everytime a
girl comes into the room he'll rate her or make a comment. But this guy has
5 girls. Seriously wtf.

Lots of things going on, most of which we don't know but what's more
interesting is what we think we know.

So he has five birds despite having no bird-feed at all, eh? Does this
mean they're all his? All worthy birds? All birds, even?

There are women who will fuck anything, too. He's found them, if
appearances are to be believed. Given that it's a numbers game, and
that he seems to proposition any pussy that comes along, the Law of
Averages means that he'll get lucky sooner or later. And with practice
comes perfection -- so he's probably got some tricks to increase his
odds, too.

Certain environments are more conducive than others, too. School is
probably the premier place for pussy. Don't forget, too, that girls
like chit-chat; they are more "primitive" than us guys and less
cerebral in that sense: the yellow teeth don't matter if he's got a
silver tongue.

Not particularly charming, you say? Obviously not to you. I know my
sister wonders about my taste in women, though I think in a way she
must know, intuitively. I love slutty women. Sure I like nice girls,
too, but nothing beats a piece of meat you can just sink your fangs
into, flowers be damned. The cheap easy girls have their purpose in
life, too, after all. So this lout of yours, they haven't got anything
you don't have. The difference is that they don't care what they have
or don't have.

[afrohispanicindoasianization]

... I'm a pro-feminism activist. Although I understand your s*xual
needs, women are powerful tools when correctly used. Please don't think
about "you know what"... I'm more interested into their nature than
s*x. Anyhow, I'm quite sure that I'm going to live a single life... lol
^_^...

[Anon]

Post by afrohispanicindoasianization
s*x.

Sex isn't profanity.

Post by afrohispanicindoasianization
... I'm a pro-feminism activist. Although I understand your s*xual
needs, women are powerful tools when correctly used. Please don't think
about "you know what"... I'm more interested into their nature than

Anyhow, I'm quite sure that I'm going to live a single life... lol

Post by afrohispanicindoasianization
^_^...

[Paul Robinson]

Post by NYC XYZ
I had a nice date last night.

Uh, dude, that' not what your [original] subject asked. Your subject
asked, "So what do you need a girl for, anyway," in which case the
answer, of course is "For sex!" Now, had you asked "So what do you need
to date a girl for, anyway," then the general membership of
alt.seduction.fast would tell you the same thing: You Don't.

As these guys would point out, you don't date a woman until after you're
having sex with her. Otherwise dating her is just an excuse to give her
a reason to turn you down.

Post by NYC XYZ
[DELETED] So it was all very nice and tidy and this girl is pretty and shapely,
even if rather too old for me (only two years my junior). And I'm
wondering, well, what do you really need a girl for, anyway?

Sex!

Post by NYC XYZ
I mean, if you're not emotionally needy and can live very happily by
yourself -- like me -- well, what's the "incentive" for dating?

There isn't any. Now, once you're seeing someone, you take her out on a
date and go somwhere nice because you want to show someone you care
about a nice time. I think something some of the people here have said
(or implied) is that if you date a woman after you've had her, then you
both can probably enjoy going out together more since she doesn't have
to wonder how to turn you down if she doesn't like you: she's already
having sex with you so there's no problem there.

Post by NYC XYZ
[DELETED] So anyway, I'm just wondering if there are any of you out there who
honestly prefer the single life, and only use women for sex. I think I
might start doing this. 'Cause I honestly can't figure out what I need
a woman for anymore besides that. Everything they say is so
predictable anyway, the only reason I'm dating is 'cause I'm horny.

That's like thinking that one should go to expensive restaurants to get
good breakfast cereal. If you're horny and you want a woman, you go
find one. If you're horny and want a woman and are willing to spend
money, go see a professional.

Finding a woman who is interested in you does not mean you act in the
same typical ways that don't work. Taking a woman out on a "date" means
you spend a considerable amount of money for the purpose of discovering
if you have compatible interests and want to go further. Or at least,
that's what it's supposed to do.

What I think you're supposed to do is, when you meet some nice lady, you
invite her out to some otherwise quiet place - if you have to be in
public - where you have the opportunity to learn more about her and she
learns about you. What your objective is or should be is to learn more
about her so you can show her that she will get what she wants and needs
from you, then convince her to be alone with you so you can then give
her what she wants so you can get what you want.

The typical dating strategy doesn't do this. Instead you spend a
considerable amount of money to go out to eat, to go some place for
entertainment, all the while there is an undercurrent of fear, plus
either you have the woman wondering if the guy is going to expect sex in
exchange for taking her out, or else she doesn't necessarily trust him
so she offers to go dutch, in which case the guy isn't sure if she is
going to like him.

My thought is that most dating today is some form of low-grade
prostitution But since everyone involved usually finds the practice
unsatisfactory it indicates there's something wrong.

What I think women do want is proof that a guy will be nice to her,
treat her with respect and have some concern for what she needs. What
we have now and in general are using does not solve the problem.

Dating probably made a lot more sense when women, in general, almost
always did not have sex with a man before they got married. Since the
man had to find out something about her and she had to find out
something about him, in a way it did work. Dating, as such, was done on
the basis of chaperoned meetings.

If dating today was a good method of what it purports to do, i.e. to
determine if two people find each other interesting and want to go
further, then it probably wouldn't be so rejected by the guys around
here. But since, as is shown over and over again, that dating doesn't
really help much in finding someone compatible, it makes very little
sense to continue using it.

Well, dropping an expensive and malfunctioning process sounds like a
good idea given the circumstances.

Post by NYC XYZ
But there's such a thing involving respect and sex and intimacy and
love and all that, and you know, it's weird having to play games (come
on, you almost can't be honest: I once pissed off a girl by joking that
she should get beaten up by cops after she told me she liked being
choked during sex).

Well, uh, yeah, she told you a fantasy and you - in effect - made fun of
it, probably in a bad way.

You could have said something like, "How about we try squeezing first,
as in me on top of you, showing you a really good time?" Oh, but that
might not be right either because one of the things the PUAs here tell
is never to ask a question; instead tell her and make her have to say no.

Maybe it would be better to say, "I've got an even better idea, we'll
try gentle squeezing first, as in me on top of you, showing you a really
good time. Or if you really want to try some choking, you can squeeze
my head while I'm giving you head."

Post by NYC XYZ
Anyway, are you folks still truly hoping for a soulmate, or are y'all
truly satisfied if things stayed as they are now for the rest of your
life?

Good question. In my case, if that were to be the case, I'd probably
kill myself.